Robotizication - They Way I'm Understanding It... Posted by Ian Potto on January 07, 2002 Alright, I may have read this wrong, but as of the events in S#105, this is how I think the Archie-book is saying being 'cized works: If you're a Fur - Your body becomes a machine, and your free will is supressed. You can accept and carry out orders from another, but not from yourself. The magic of the Sword of Acorns restores one's free will. If you're an Overlander - Your body becomes a machine. If you resist the transformation (Agnes, Colin, Cheesy-Boy), your free will is suppressed. If you accept the transformation (Snively), then your free will remains intact. Likewise, the ability to move hinges on one's free will - resist and you're a statue; accept and you're free to move around. There is some conflicting history to Furs retaining their free will. Three cases come to mind - Knuckles (pro Karl's idea) - In the "Mecha Madness" story, he willining jumped into the portable roboticizer and came out with his free will. (Counter-point: It was also said the FF rigged their 'cizer to skip the Brain-Burn-Thru sequence) Sally (anti Karl's idea) - I forget which issue, but she allowed herself to be 'cized, thinking her will would remain intact thanks to the neural over-rider. Snively found the chip on her, took it away, and had her 'cized. She lost her free will. (Counter-point: Sally might have known Snively removed the chip, so she really did resist the process) Jules (neither pro/nor anti) - He was the first to get 'cized. Perhaps he resisted because he wasn't completely sure his brother's device would work. Perhaps he willing let the process happen since Charles said it was save him. Maybe he was so beat up, he didn't know -what- was going on. Who knows? I meant to write this as a way to clear things up...but it looks like I only muddied the water. Ah well. New writer on the horizon! ------ Re: Robotizication - They Way I'm Understanding It...Good points! Posted by Evil-R : I meant to writer this as a way to clear things up...but it looks like I only muddied the water. Ah well. New writer on the horizon! No...you didn't muddy the waters...you merely heightened our senses to detect the ineptitude that the STH writers harbor so much! I mean you didn't write these plot points! Yeah...what is it with this "If you want to be roboticized, your free will is intact?!" Do you know how that completley mars the the storyline in STH?! Do roboticizers work for different species or races of animals or humans? I always thought the result was the same with the roboticizer, and robot worker devoid of any free will. But know Karl has joined the ranks of the idiotic. He has earned that ignoble title of a bad writer. First, it was Ken with the "Tails isn't Tails" plot point...and now another portion of the SATAM show has been defiled! The roboticizers!!!! Thanks Karl! Oh wait....you've already screwed up with Mina and her super speed. Reminds of some unimaginative fanfic writer and their creations!!! I hope he clears this up...whic is doubtful. You can't unring a bell. And is any writer ever going to bring up the possibilty of a deroboticzer that works?! What is Ucle Chuck doing? If he is so self-critical of his mistakes, why not try to rectify them? I know he said he couldn't build it to the same specs in SSS #2 but geez...don't give up! And in STH #29, why didn't they mass-produce all those deroboticizer units?! And another question...why can't Uncle-Chuck merely go to Robotropolis and investigate the roboticizers in Robotnik's lair? I'm sure there is a reversal process on those machines! Y'know like "Undo!" Well what am I saying...the writers can't think up this crap! How I pity them! ------ Some easy steps to make the Sonic comic more SatAM again... Posted by SatAMhog 1.Put Uncle Chuck as a spy in Robotropolis again. It worked out great in SatAM 2.Send Sonic and co. on small run of the mill missions like raiding a swat-bot factory or finding parts for a de- roboticizer. 3.Let Robotnik take over another continent like Downunda or something. It would make the whole "fight for freedom" plotline great again. 4.Let Snively mumble under his breath at Robotnik. Example: Snively:You'll mess everything up,you ugly boil... Robotnik:WHAT WAS THAT SNIVELY?!!!!?!!! Snively:I said that the Doomsday machine will need more OIL sir,heh-heh... -SatAMhog! ------ Re: Robotizication - They Way I'm Understanding It... Posted by sonic_tsunami I think the original idea for it was to symbolize communism and dictatorship...etc.... becuase in the early 90's america was recovering from the cold war and communism wasthe biggest thing on their minds... and being afraid it may happen again...they press the issue in the cartoons then.... that's why I prefer the japanese some plot more...doesnt have that interference..they trystaying away from reality... making a cartoon a cartoon. and in the japanese plot, eggman is more like a bad guy than a dictator..which makes it cooler...and sonic happens to have a bone to pick with him. that's why I like the japanese plot better...they dont water down sonic and make him have any reason except to stop eggman from trying to spread world terror...instead of sonic trying to rid of the world terror.... ------ Give Karl a break - it's not that illogical Posted by MB POSSIBLE EXPLANATIONS A) Since Uncle Chuck only tested the robotization process with furries, there was no telling what effect it had on humans. An excuse such as different wave-patters or a chemical that only humans produce could explain why humans can't move unless they are roboticized willingly. B) Robotnik modified the robotization technology to his advantage ------ Posted by Bune : If you're an Overlander - Your body becomes a machine. :If you resist the transformation(Agnes, Colin, Cheesy-Boy), :your free will is suppressed. If you accept the transformation :(Snively), then your free will remains intact. Likewise, the ability :to move hinges on one's free will - resist and you're a statue; :accept and you're free to move around. And you also become ugly and underdrawn if you're drawn by Ron Lim... wait, that describes all the characters. : There is some conflicting history to Furs retaining their free will. :Three cases come to mind - : Knuckles (pro Karl's idea) - In the "Mecha Madness" story, he willining : jumped into the portable roboticizer and came out with his free will. : (Counter-point: It was also said the FF rigged their 'cizer to skip : the Brain-Burn-Thru sequence) They gave him the same thing they gave Sally in S29 to retain her free will... Neural Overrider. It wasn't the willingness o.o And the Brain Burn Thru sequence is just a new way that Robotnik made his robotisizers robotisize someone. The older equipment didn't have it installed, but it was still a stronger unit, because Robotnik used inferior foreign parts. : Sally (anti Karl's idea) - I forget which issue, but she allowed : herself to be 'cized, thinking her will would remain intact thanks : to the neural over-rider. Snively found the chip on her, took it away, : and had her 'cized. She lost her free will. (Counter-point: Sally : might have known Snively removed the chip, so she really did resist the process) Her mind unconsciously resisted... o.o : Jules (neither pro/nor anti) - He was the first to get 'cized. : Perhaps he resisted because he wasn't completely sure his brother's : device would work. Perhaps he willing let the process happen since : Charles said it was save him. Maybe he was so beat up, he didn't : know -what- was going on. Who knows? It was different back then probably o.o : I meant to writer this as a way to clear things up...but it looks : like I only muddied the water. Ah well. New writer on the horizon! Or maybe this new robotisizing stuff is only happening with the new Robotnik o.o --- Posted by Zandor 12 : Or maybe this new robotisizing stuff is only happening with the new Robotnik o.o That's what I thought- that this business with Overlanders becoming statues or being able to keep free will is due to glitches in Robotnik's touch-activated roboticizer dealy. *Blinks* Wait- how would being non-touchable make him invincible? All you need is a projectile... or drown him in water... a huge jolt of electricity would work, he's a robot after all- speaking of which, a magnet would also work quite nicely. What do you mean, medication? -Zandor 12, still collecting hamsters ------ ------ -.- Ken, Karl, explain this to me Posted by Sonique Hedgehog on January 22, 2002 How is it people who WANT to be roboticized keep their will when the reason Uncle Chuck trashed it was because it took away willing people's wills? Or is this just another Tails isn't really tails twist that makes no sence? ------ I'm likely wrong, but... Posted by Kixxy I assumed it was something to do with the difference between robotsizing overlanders and normal furs (similar to the mobility what-not). Either that, or perhaps more likely, this Eggman modified the robotosization process and we haven't been shown until now. If he gave himself the power to do it by touch, he may have made other modifications to it as well. Then again, they did do the Tails-isn't-Tails thing, so I've given up trying to make any sense of the whole bit. ;) ------ What I think (I dunno if someone already said it or not...) I think Snively had one of those things they would have used way back when to let Sally be roboticized and keep free will. Maybe Snively had one. Or it's gonna be like the Tails-Isn't-Tails thing. ------ It's not that illogical Posted by MB POSSIBLE EXPLANATIONS A) Since Uncle Chuck only tested the robotization process with furries, there was no telling what effect it had on humans. An excuse such as different wave-patters or a chemical that only humans produce could explain why humans can't move unless they are roboticized willingly. B) Robotnik modified the robotization technology to his advantage. There are such things as upgrades. ------ Posted by Tristan Palmgren :Or is this just another Tails isn't really tails twist that makes no sence? Yeah, pretty much. It's quite possible that Robotnik had been lying to Snively for... some reason. Certainly more plausible, anyway. --- You CAN accept Ian Potto's explanation... Posted by Lady Laguna That the test subject whose will was taken away (Jules), wasn't quite SURE about the whole deal, thereby making him somewhat unwilling... Ian talked about that in his big ol' thread down south. ~jenn --- Eh... Posted by Tristan Palmgren That's an interesting theory... but if you ask me, Snively would've been more unsure about the whole deal than even Jules. Come on, Snively's always uncertain about everything, especially when it comes to things like being forced into roboticization by a man you hate, a tyrant who knows that you're the one who killed his previous incarnation, and who just poisoned you. At least Jules knew that his brother Charles was the one behind the controls when he got roboticized. Also, it just doesn't make sense that somehow being willing affects the physical process of roboticization. It's not as if the actual neuron structure changes significantly. What I see is more likely is Robotnik using the "going into it willingly" thing as just a cover, to keep something else hidden. Maybe he's modified the roboticizer, or found some other secret, and doesn't want anybody else to know. Or maybe he just doesn't understand the process entirely himself, and his ego won't allow him to admit it. --- Well - You could think of it like this it could make sense Posted by WB Since the days of old when Chuck created the Roboticizer, the technology has since then been soley in the hands of Dr. Robotnik. ANY kind of changes to said Roboticizer technology could be made at that time. This "secret project", Robotnik had been working on for a while was an "upgrade" to the Roboticizer technology. Think of it as a Roboticizer 2.0 It borrows from the original technology but is vastly different in what it does and how it does it. With Chucks roboticizer (well call it the 1.0 version) - free will was completely taken away, making the victim mobile, but unable to keep thier own free will unless some means of magic brought it back - this was the case of Chuck himself. Dr. Robotnik has had QUITE a long time with the technology by himself to manipulate and tweak certain facets of it. And thanks to the Monkey Khan link, he had worked on cyborg technology before - which is how you can possibly incorporate Snively's button hand into this. If you just ignore the continuity glitch that an already roboticized something will blow up in a roboticizer, you can easily say that Robotnik's "Hand Touch" roboticizer makes sense if you think of it as a newer version in comparison to touch - The Roboticizer 2.0 rendering the victim COMPLETELY inert and immobile unless you submit to Dr. Robotnik - a bio organic machine himself....Its like a computer being controlled by another computer in a sense. For example - external things like a Zip Disk or Printer cant work unless attached to a computer, correct? So Snively had to agree basically to completely submit his will to Robotnik if he ever expected to remain mobile. Nate, Cheddarmund, Colin, and Agnes of course - never had that chance... My guess is that when Robotnik WANTS them to move and do his labor as his slaves - he'll make them do so. THIS WAY, he has more control over his own robots and can prevent the Sword Of Acorns from interfering and providing a "macguffin" way out. He can pretty much have COMPLETE and total control - something the original roboticizer never really had a full grasp over If you think about it in these terms it makes sense. --- WB is correct! (n/m) Karl Bollers --- WHOOHOO !!!!!!!! Posted by WB So Karl - do I get a cookie? :D One thing I think sooner or later you'd need to clarify is the button hand thing as thats probably going to haunt you sooner or later. Maybe some insight on Snively's origins one day - like how he came to stay with the original Doc R.? So I'm also assuming that theres no longer the consequence of something already robotic being blown up by a touch roboticizer anymore or how does that work? --- Sounds great, Mr. Bollers! Posted by Psxphile Stupid question time: Will she be appearing in Sonic's or Knuckles' storyline? Since you announced it, I assume she'd be in Sonic's.... (...and here I was, ready for a catfight between her and Julie! ^.^; ) ------ so... Posted by Sonique Hedgehog How many think we'll find out Snively really isn't Snively? =D --- Posted by Lisa Echidna I do! I do! ^^; ------